I want to shorten it to 6' 6" by cutting 18" off the butt - what would the effect be, in terms of line weight?
Maybe to a 3wt? ... or roughly what? - would appreciate suggestions/ideas. Thanks!
photo by Loudog99 |
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flyzryze |
Effect of shortening a blank |
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I have an 8ft 1-piece Garcia Conolon fiberglass flyrod blank that appears to be about a 5 wt.
I want to shorten it to 6' 6" by cutting 18" off the butt - what would the effect be, in terms of line weight? Maybe to a 3wt? ... or roughly what? - would appreciate suggestions/ideas. Thanks! |
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tengas |
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i think the rod might be more faster than before..
but if i had a rod like this i prefer to cut it into two pieces just fine... good luck |
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pearow |
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I dont think that will be the case either but here's a way to find out. Put a tip top on it, then use the common cents method for testing it.
Before you cut it . An explanation of the common cents ERN measurement can be found on www.rodbuilding.org; look in the left hand column under sponsers and click on common cents. Read the ERN test. Basically it is a method to determine the flex of a rod by weighting the tip with pennies until the rod flexes 1/3 its length. Do the test with the full length, then move the rod back to where you want to cut it off, secure the butt and test the shorter length. You'll probably be surprised to find its heavier than the original in terms of weight. Thats what i would do-p- |
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Zenkoanhead.clarksclassicfl... |
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It is a myth that cutting the butt down lightens the line weight, I can however, make for a better casting rod. I usually finish all the guides and then try
the grip in various positions. You may have to leave off the stripper and first running guide during the mock ups if you are going to shorten dramatically. Don
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jgestar |
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IF it is one of the Garcia fly rod blanks (as in not actually a spin rod blank), then it is probably a 6/7 weight
blank. Considering that the Garcia rods did flex a bit deeper than some, you will probably stiffen the rod by trimming it. You would be best off leaving it
as an 8 foot, 6 weight. That was one of Garcia's nicer rod sizes.
Tom |
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flyzryze |
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Thanks for the responses.
I used the 'common cents' method & came up with a "6.5", so 6 -7 weight was right. Was only slightly more (~7.0) when measured with 18'" less on the butt end. Anyway that 'common cents' method seems a great way to quantify rod actions - out of curiosity I've started measuring deflection/weight for all my rods, up through heavy saltwater boat rods, just to see. |
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flyzryze |
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OOPS - correction - per common cents method "shortening" the blank made it slightly lighter (6.5 vs. 7.0 ERN), but slightly faster, by measurement.
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rvreclus |
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Okay, I give up what's the answer to this question of shortening a blank?
This is a question I have pondered for a long time and still I'm not sure one way or another if it will stiffen (make the rod faster) resulting in a rod for a heavier line weight or will it stay the same line weight. I used to think that to achieve the same rod action, one would have to go up in line weight, no matter what blank you are cutting. I am beginning to come to the conclusion that it depends entirely on what blank you are using, the results will be different for each and every one. I used to believe that, in general, shortening a blank caused it to be faster and necessitating the use of a heavier line. Now I'm really confused, Respectfully rvreclus
Last Edited By: rvreclus
05/31/09 13:46:45.
Edited 1 times.
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flyzryze |
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re rvreclus post: I'm not an expert, but I now think shortening on the butt end will make for a lighter power but faster
rod. Previous responses indicated it would make the rod faster, and my 'common cents' measurements also indicated that. Another way I think of this
& for what it's worth, hypothetically if one took (drastically!) say 6' off an 8' blank, the
remaining 2' tip piece by itself would obviously be much lighter and have much less power, and would feel like a tiny broomstick when waved around. So in
the limit shortening at the butt end would in my view result in a lighter but faster rod, feeling-wise anyway. Maybe others who have done such actual
shortening may have direct first-hand experience of the effect.
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whrlpool |
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Jgestar, no surprise, hit it. As a practical matter with rare exceptions, the answer is quite simple. A blank behaves as a stiffer rod when cut from either
end--a feeling of power added, but loss of delicacy when cut from the tip; speed and loss of feel and control when cut from the butt. Casting tests before
cutting are a good idea. It's easy to feel. If you've got a good 9' rod, grab it above the the handle and try to cast it. Or run the line out the
last snake guide rather than the tip-top and try to cast it. The rod's feel will be dramatically changed for the worse.
So an even better, more practical idea, again harkening to Jgestar's point, but I will put it plainer: cutting a blank any significant amount ruins it. What is a significant amount? More than 1/4 inch off the tip--and I would never do that, and always consider a shortened tip rod (perhaps from a break) ruined, as they never feel right--and more than a reel seat's length off the butt, (no more than 1 inch, perhaps to accommodate a certain reel seat style, is a much better guideline). Another way to think of it would be no more than half a tip-top size increment of diameter/taper from either end, but why bother to think of it at all, when it is easy enough to get a blank of the type wanted. |
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Zenkoanhead.clarksclassicfl... |
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I am sure others will jump in, but I always check every blank to see if it improves if built staggered. Particularly with bamboo blanks, 3" off the butt
can turn it into a wonderful rod. On one occassion I shortened the tip of a 1 weight as it was way to soft without the modification. About 6" shorter at
the tip, as I recall. Casts great now.
In general though, manufacturers strive to create a blank that is trimmed to the proper length when it leaves the factory. Staggering the ferrule back towards the hand results in an improvement because it allows the rod to flex more deeply across the center, even if the ferrules were well designed. Don |
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majicwrench |
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To Wrlpool's post,
I had an Orvis Green Mnt graphite and lost an inch off the tip, and just reglued the tiptop. Negitive fun, a different rod. But on the other end, I have moved grips up a few inches several times, and been very happy with the results. I have a rod here beside me that is going to get the cork grip shortened a bit and the seat moved up, then a small fighting butt added to the 2" of glass sticking out the back of the seat. But overall I agree, blank was designed to work at it's designed length. As for that Garcia blank, those are usually not light line blanks, and a 3wt is probably not gonna happen. Keith |
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flyfishing4goldentrout |
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Well for what its worth I had an old H I 8 1/2ft three piece glass rod laying around that the wraps were shot on. I was gonna strip it and use it as spare
parts, it was a decent 5/6wt in its day though. Then after Pearow mentioned in an earlier post that he was hunting such for a rod for a friends son I dug
around and found it but he'd already found the parts he was looking for, so I gave it some thought and decided to turn it into a short rod for my oldest
grandson.
At the end of this tale, that long sort of noodly 5/6wt turned into a much faster crisper two piece (now glass spigot ferruled) 5 1/2ft 5/6wt fly rod. Basically by moving the grip forward it had changed the action not the line weight or taper. Just a crisper faster rod when finished. Richard |
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Raybow |
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I had an old olympic glass rod that I stripped and took off about 6" at the handle end. I have never finished the rod as I thought it to be a major
'ut O' in rod modification with the tip section longer than the handle section on a two piece rod. The action did feel crisper and would probably raise
the line weight by one.
Ray................ |
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