3M Built Phillipson EF86

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flyfishing4goldentrout	3M Built Phillipson EF86	Lead	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 2633 (10/14/07 21:54:17) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Here's a sweet rod Im sure Tom would like to comment on. As best I can tell it was from the very last of the Phillipson line, a 3M built EF86 Some of the unusual things about it are first off the totally none Bill Phillipson fiberglass ferrule. Then of course always interesting is the chocolate brown colored Epoxite 3M blank. This is a bit different though, the short wraps on the eyes with that same thread often seen on early Eponites and Johnson Profiles. Another change, how about a Ceramic stripping guide. Another thing I like, the snakes are one size larger than those on earlier models of Phillipsons as is the chromed tip top. Another give away is the absense of the Phillipson Worlds finest logo from the 3M built rod. Finally the build address on the matching rod tube is "Made by Minisota Mining Co, Saint Paul Minisota. The rod came to me in the original plastic wrap, however it didn't have a rod sock. This very none Bill Phillipson ferrule was what I was looking for. Only one Ive ever seen with a Ceramic Stripping Guide No Phillipson, Worlds Finest Logo Well what do you think Tom?
yuhina	Re: 3M Built Phillipson EF86	#1	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 1333 (10/17/07 08:36:59) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	That's a NICE CUTE little rod!! I want one!!! I really love the cork shape and the copper reelseat...Thanks for the post Richard.
flyfishing4goldentrout	Re: 3M Built Phillipson EF86	#2	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 2633 (10/17/07 16:30:43) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hi Yuhina, Well Phillipson's really are addictive, both to fish and collect. I think this is the last model they produced before the end. I just bought another, perhaps from the year before, when Bill Phillipson still owned the operation, it will be next week sometime before it gets here and I can take photo's of it and compair the differences. I have 5 different Epoxite Registered rods now, all are from different periods of production using the 3M blanks, each quite different from the other, I will have to start posting their pictures here as well. I have several examples of the Johnson Profile 800 and 600 rods, just need an Eponite 400 to finish off that series. For the Master series I have examples of that series with different wrap colors, seats and eye styles as well. For the Eponite line Im missing just one example and hope to have it soon. I have the Fly Fox, Swamp Fox, Royal Wand, Deluxe and early glass models pretty well covered too. Only a few more to go now. So far none has been disappointing. Only the early more common Glass style rods seem a bit heavy in comparison to the changes that followed the Eponite rods. Once into the Masters, Johnson Profiles and Epoxites it really gets exciting. The Royal Wand series feels alot like the Epoxites with their glass ferrules, but I don't know what blank material they used for that series, I will have to ask Tom and see if he knows. Altogether except for the earliest common fiberglass blanked rods, the rest are a joy to fish. Richard
jgestar	Re: 3M Built Phillipson EF86	#3	[-]
Posts: 4426 (12/13/07 02:28:10) ezOP Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Richard, I think you are right about this being a very late model Phillipson rod. I wonder if this model was tweaked by someone who had a hand in the Scientific Anglers System rods - hence the glass spigot ferrule. The reelseat looks similar to the System rods also. At that point, 3M owned both Phillipson and Scientific Anglers. Another possibility is the spigot ferrule rods were built at the end to use up the available stock. The logo on the rods changed to Phillipson "Brand" after the purchase by 3M. When Bill Phillipson owned the company, they used the "World's Finest" logo. I think any of the Phillipson rods with glass ferrules would have been made on Scotchply rod blanks, except the Epoxite rods. Epoxites were the next generation of epoxy based blank. Unfortunately, Phillipson did not give their rods date based serial numbers. Also, I don't have any Phillipson catalogs (I've been watching for them too!). A good catalog set would really clear up the various rod model questions. Tom
flyfishing4goldentrout	Re: 3M Built Phillipson EF86	#4	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 2633 (12/13/07 03:05:26) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hi Tom, Well after seeing ghstrydr164's posting when I first joined the forum, and the fact that his serial number is only 30 or so after mine, I was determined to find one of these last rods. I think everything on it is authentic it could have been special ordered, or not, no idea, sense we have no catalogues or records to reseach. But the marked simularities of ghstryder's rod and this one definately suggest a transition and perhaps point towards early rod styles that 3M was producing from other plants such as those for the Scientific Anglers system rods. Part of the fun of collecting Phillipsons is the learning experence for sure. Sort of alot of shots in the dark with the total absense of catalogues. So far I have more than a dozen rods not listed in Johnsons book and it seems every time I think I have a direction to go, another shows up and leads to an entirely different and concurent direction. Richard
CrustyBugger	Is the spigot ferrule on your rod hollow and open on the end?	#5	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 14 (09/05/08 07:52:11) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Sorry about bringing up an old post but I'm a new member and was browsing through the older posts. I was curious if the male spigot is open on the end and is hollow into the rod? Or is it a solid or a plugged spigot? Thanks. CrustyBugger Last Edited By: CrustyBugger 09/05/08 12:40:52. Edited 1 times.
flyfishing4goldentrout		#6	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 1704 (09/05/08 17:48:57) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Easy question first, CrustyBugger, the ferrule material is hollow and appears to be almost exactly the same as McFarland uses in his multi piece rods. Ok Tom, well long long hard place for both of us. First I think its a factory rod from the last two years, perhaps the last months, sense many of the parts do look like 3Ms reel seat. Also the final shape of the cork grip. In addition we have another members posting of a midge rod of the same construction and assembly. His serial number is just a tiny bit higher than mine. Ive been in contact, am in contact with and continue to be in contact with Rick at Ricks rods. Currently ordering some parts but trying to access his available catalogues. He does have some. I have half a dozen pictures of different green veragate Masters that I believe to have been made on uniglass blanks. Honestly I think all of Phillipsons rods after he reaquired the company from Johnson were based on these blanks until the introduction of Epoxite. I would follow that trail to Johnsons book. But further to Rick at Ricks rods, and to the photos I have of green veragate rods with Uniglass tags and even a 3M uniglass tip over butt ferruled Master from 3M. again frankly I think the green veragate and G prefix designates uniglass in Master rods, but the only way we are gonna "prove it" is if Rick comes off of at least the Master line of pages from the Catalogues he has. As such Im trying, sense I do buy stuff from Ricks and am currently buying stuff. Sense he knows its not an aversaryial relationship perhaps will will agree to some xerox copies that Tom can list in the Wiki without posting the actual catalogues persay. I think most here know I love Phillipsons, as does Tom and alot of other members so perhaps we can call upon Rick to help us out. Without endangering his sourse materials value!!!! Richard
CrustyBugger		#7	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 16 (09/05/08 18:33:29) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	With that ferrule being hollow and open out to the end, that blank is very similar in appearance to my Wanigas Ausable. CrustyBugger
jgestar		#8	[-]
Posts: 2685 (09/05/08 19:02:34) ezOP Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I'll give Rick a call too. Maybe if we tag team him we can wear him down. The reelseat, cork grip, winding check, hook keeper, blank color, and wraps on this rod are all the same as the Scientific Angler System rods. However, the SA spigot ferrules are solid. Still, it makes me think that J. Kennedy Fisher finished out the last of the Phillipson blanks. Perhaps he even painted them too. The pictured rod has much more in common with the System rods, than with the earlier Epoxites. It would be interesting to compare it to a System 7 or 8 and see how they cast. Without catalog listings, our conclusions about Phillipson models and timelines are simply guesses. Rods marked with AFTMA line weights didn't start to come into use until the Johnson ownership period (the Johnson rods I've seen were all marked ONLY with AFTMA line weights). Before the Johnson ownership period many of Phillipson rods were clear finish to show off that cool Eponite blank. During and after the Johnson period all the rod blanks were painted. I believe Vic Johnson's book indicating the glass sleeve ferrules didn't come into use until 1969. Beyond those clues, anything else is just a guess. I'll buy that the "G"-series Masters were made from ScotchPly, but to be honest, I'm guessing that the "G" prefix on the model number meant "green". I'm guessing the G series rods were made in the late 60s and early 70s, but only because of the catalog page reproduced in Johnson's book. My guess is those tan painted, yellow wrapped Masters were made in the period after Johnson Reels sold the company back to Bill Phillipson, but before the G-series. In the long run, it probably doesn't matter anyway as both the yellow wrapped and green wrapped Master rods are lovely to cast. Grab them when you can! Tom [Edit: I just pulled out my Scientific Anglers System 9 rod. Even the ceramic stripping guide is an exact match. The System rod has two lock nuts on the reelseat, instead of one on the Phillipsons and the grip is a slightly different shape. Tom] Last Edited By: jgestar 09/05/08 21:23:01. Edited 1 times.
ribs1		#9	[-]
Posts: 116 (09/05/08 19:09:52) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Just to chime in here, I have a Phillipson Epoxite EF80 that looks exactly the same as this rod in every respect. Also, Crusty Bugger, I die a slow death every time you discuss that Wanigas. That was the holy grail to me. The quest continues.
ribs1		#10	[-]
Posts: 117 (09/05/08 19:59:01) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I just grabbed my camera and rod to take some pictures for comparison. Thanks for looking
flyfishing4goldentrout		#11	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 1706 (09/05/08 23:11:53) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I love this forum. Far to many know I love Phillipsons so Im glad Ebay has hidden our bidding. Ribbs, your rod is exactly what I was hoping for, it pretty well confirms both our rods and a few others. The last of the very last before Phillipson was no more. Also it confirms the concept that both the Phillipson line, the Scientific Anglers line and Fisher was playing with available blanks at the 3M relocated facility in 1973 or so. Thanks so much for posting your pictures. Tom, I am sure hoping we can at least get Rick to allow us to have a copy of what he has as long as we do not publish it per say, rather list the info he has and give credit to him and Phillipson. Likewise sense Im an old fart, how about looking at the idea of starting a library of info, perhaps as part of the wiki. I have all but two of Garcia Conolons catalogues and a few from before (narmco) and would love to contribute them to a site that like ours is open to the public and offers such info gratis. We don't live forever and I would hate to think my catalogues and annuals would be broken up and sold off, each year they become more valuable and at some point Im gonna have to find a home for them. Tom I have to agree, I have no idea when the switch was made other than Johnsons book (when Bill Phillipson aquired the company back from Johnson). However Ive never had a yellow thread Master not feel like an Eponite. I have one Im stripping this winter and will follow up with pic's its a 7ft Bass taper special production. I also have 4 doggy green wrap Masters Im gonna strip this winter for future rebuilds, frankly I think they are uniglass. two are still readable have NS ferrules and follow the 1960? after Johnson profile time period. Once clearly marked and identical but from 1967, is a uniglass with tags, yet another is a 3M post 1972 mfg Master with tip over butt that Im repairing. I sure hope we can talk Rick into sharing at least with restraints his catalogues. Over the last couple of years he's shared little tid bits of info Im sure he's gleaned from his orginal Phillipson Catalogues. It would be a megga deal for us here to have access to his information without disclosing or publishing his catalogues per say. Richard
ribs1		#12	[-]
Posts: 119 (09/06/08 00:03:14) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	No problem Richard. When I bought this rod, there were 2 others listed on Ebay at the same time. I was outbid on the others. I have not seen another one since and this was about 3 years ago. Tom, I don't believe the grip is the same as the SA System grip. I'll have to drag out my system 6 to be sure as I am only going from memory and haven't fished the system 6 in a few years because it has been replaced by my FF806 as my go to rod.
flyfishing4goldentrout		#13	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 1854 (10/10/08 20:32:23) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hi Ribs, Well I just received today tonemikes EF80 6wt and like yours its also a late 3M produced Epoxite with the same glass spigot ferrule, etc, looks like yours clone, except no reg number on the finished rod. Gonna give it a good washing and waxing and match a reel and line to it and take it fishing Sunday morning. I really like the way it feels, most likely if the winds don't pickup alot tomorrow I will lawn cast it some while Im cleaning it and waxing it up. It just feels way good though. Richard
tonemike		#14	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 451 (10/22/08 00:41:13) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	hey richard, glad it got there alright. i know it'll be in good company with your many phillipsons. i look forward to hearing what line and reel you match it up with. -mike
corlay		#15	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 328 (10/22/08 07:11:33) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	flyfishing4goldentrout wrote: Well I just received today tonemikes EF80 6wt hey, I was wondering who that rod went to. (I should've known better, eh? <g>) I was very tempted, but I'm holding-out for a shorter one... Enjoy! "From my observations I think that most of us spend too much time worrying about our tackle and too little time learning the intimate characteristics of the fish and streams we fish most." - Ray Bergman Trout, New York: Knopf 1938

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