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pearow |
Agate stripper guides |
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I've noticed some very nice agate strippers on some rods you guys have made. Where is the best source for those? Is any one place less expensive? I've seen them on a site but i have forgotten which one-p-
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Andymanyankee |
Re: Agate stripper guides | ||
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Hello P
I have purchased them from Golden Witch of late. They offer them on eBay for a reduced price as well. They start around $16.00 . The quality is outstanding and the service can't be beat. A truly great Mom and Pop operation old school style where the customer comes first. They are away on Vacation until after the holiday so try after the 2nd if you need to talk to someone . Other wise the site is up and they have some listed on eBay currently. I am sure other folks will chime in and give you some other venues as well. Tight Lines and Agate Guided Loops Andy M "FISH AND VISITORS STINK AFTER 3 DAYS"
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lpirrone |
Re: Agate stripper guides | ||
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another option is the snake brand company. this is another small operation with good service. i have bought from golden witch as well. both great companies.
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lpirrone |
Re: Agate stripper guides | ||
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the link to snake brand: www.snakeguides.com
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pearow |
Re: Agate stripper guides | ||
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I buy rods for less than those things cost!!!!!!-p-
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Cameron |
Re: Agate stripper guides | ||
Quote: But pearow...they make those custom builds look oh so good.
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StippledPopper |
Re: Agate stripper guides | ||
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And pearow imagine how one of those White Banded Agate or Black and White Jasper stripping guides in the Golden Witch Catalog would look on that Wrod we've been trying to identify on another thread... at least I am thinking about putting one on the rod I am rewrapping and adding guides to.
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pearow |
Re: Agate stripper guides | ||
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I can't see it yet boys; I'm still on the dark side of the mountain; but i now own a phillipson so i'm getting closer to the top
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Rockthief |
guides | ||
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I have my eye on an old pink one.
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Andymanyankee |
Re: guides | ||
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Hello
Look close at the Guide Pictured above. Look close at the the Inside Diameter of the Agate Guide. Now look at the line in relation to the I.D. of the guide . See the flat spot ? Flat spots = drag & friction. Just because a guide Looks good and adds to the bling will not make it the right choice for a custom rod. These are the details you need to look for and consider when choosing the proper stripping guide for your rod . The I.D. of this guide can be reworked and the flat spot minimized or eliminated depending on how good a polisher you are. My comments are not meant to insult the builder only to make a point about the proper choices when considering stripping guides. I hope I have been some help !! Tight Lines and Minimal Drag Loops Andy M "FISH AND VISITORS STINK AFTER 3 DAYS"
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flyfishing4goldentrout |
Re: guides | ||
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Ive been buying agate stripping guides from the Golden Witch people for years, from the traditional red or cherry colored agates to some of the more modern mixes like Rootbeer and lemonlime. While I tend to pay more than I really want to for such a guide, Ive never sent one back or been disapointed. Frankly their quality control is the finest Ive ever seen. For our Septre rods, a fine agate stripper is really at least for me a necessity. I don't know if the fellow has any more of this length and line weight available, but Im sure should he offer more, they won't go for what we paid for them this time. A rod with such a progressive taper not going to be easily replaced, so using the finest materials for this once in a lifetime project should be considered.
Richard |
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Andymanyankee |
Re: guides | ||
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Hello
Started to post a reply and got called away so I deleted it ! I agree Richard that G.W. has some really great stuff. Quality Ceramic inserted strippers should not be over looked as well. Recently I have been looking at several quides for the Sceptre. Tight Lines and Quality Loops Andy M "FISH AND VISITORS STINK AFTER 3 DAYS"
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whrlpool |
Re: guides | ||
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Carbide
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OhioOutdoorsman |
Re: guides | ||
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Any concern over durability of the agate stripping guides?
What are your favorite ceramic stripping guides to put on fiberglass rods? I have become a fan of fuji's hopkin's and halloway line. They look classic but are modern in function. |
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Andymanyankee |
Re: guides | ||
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Hello
I like the H & H ceramic guides best ! For durability I agree with Whirlpool carbide . The problem with agate and ceramic is if they get cracked thats it you need to replace them. The trend today is for agate basically because they look so nice with all the choices we have in color and styles. They work real well also. To each their own generally I use carbide or stainless steel. On presentation rods I ramp up and use agate most times or leave it to the client to choose. On rods I build for myself its ceramic I like the way they perform best and if I crack one no big deal to replace it. The new ceramics are much better than their predecessors ! I do have a problem with guides that are made to look good and fall short of the purpose they were designed for however. Tight Lines and Guided Loops Andy M "FISH AND VISITORS STINK AFTER 3 DAYS"
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flyfishing4goldentrout |
Re: guides | ||
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I love good questions. Let me say this, specific to the Sceptre blanks many of us have now. These blanks are Im sure gonna be a once in a lifetime build for alot of us. They are just that good. I doubt we will come across such blanks at such a price again. I plan on treating these blanks just as I would and do and will a vintage Epoxite, Eponite or a few others.
In this case my choice was never any less than an Agate and none but the best and I consider Golden Witch to have just that, some of the best. Ive never had one of there's thats been a problem. Even those tiny wire pure gold wire rope bezel models on blued frames. That by the way is my choice for the Spectre, they are costing me twice as much as the blank, simple as that. I feel the same way about the reel seat, luckily they are available from several sourses. My point being how many times are you ever going to have a chance to build a glass rod with this quality of blank into a once in a lifetime presentation rod? On a whole, for presentation rods I like and stick to Agate. For some of the high grade Conolons I built I used the Conolon white agate guides, they still show up on ebay from time to time. For rods based on the Eponite series I prefer gold plated stainless steel strippers. For the earlier Epoxite series I prefer either some of the larger Conolon white agate or even one of the special color Golden Witch agates. The few last year Epoxites I have came with Oxide strippers, they look alot like Fuji's to me. For general use glass rods, I like chromed stainless, gold plated stainless, black chromed stainless and Mildrum bronze. Most older rods have strippers in sizes like 8mm. My smallest strippers are never smaller than 10mm. I prefer 12mm and like them closer to the grip on shorter rods. I like as a rule more guides of a larger diameter on my rods spaced closer together based on rod flex under load. If an 8wt fly line has a burst strength of 20 pounds then I want my 8wt rod to be able to handle the stress of a fighting 20 pound fish. That especially includes the ferrule and wraps on the guides. On heavier rods I follow the practice of underwrapping the feet of guides. For lightness of weight I prefer top wraps only and as short as practical for 6wt and below. For fiberglass I prefer double footed guides only because they were what was used during the golden era of glass. I do have some glass rods that have been rewrapped with single footed fuji's and they fish ok, as do several current glass rods made on glass with single footed guides. But for the classics my first choice is traditional. I especially like the double loop Phillipson guides on Phillipsons. Likewise the short wraps of the last year Phillipsons and some of the rods based on similiar Hardy/Fisher/Spectre based rods. The bright wraps really do something both for the dark brown Phillipsons and the dark Spectre blanks. Its hard to color match Carbide strippers because of their duller finish but they are perhaps the strongest of the all metal strippers for glass rods and some of the most cost efficent as well. Phillipson used alot of Carbide strippers on their Eponite based series. I haven't had a great amount of experence with ceramics, on some of the vintage rods I have especially the casting rods, Ive had so many that have seen their inserts fall out with just the slightest impacts that Ive been a bit leary of ever using them. However such as Russ Peak back when he first started buying Conolon and Silaflex (late 50s early 60s) blanks used those red and white ceramic strippers almost exclusively. Although when he made his agreement with Garcia Conolon to use their ovens for his blanks the newer lighter glass rods can be seen with both metal and Garcia Agate strippers. I have early rods by Russ Peak, one on a Conolon blank the other on a Silaflex and am very interested in there composition and layout, in that they were I think both build just before he started rolling his own blanks at Conolon. I guess what Im rambling on about is the fact that on a so so blank, just about anything you want is acceptable and each to his own. But in the case of something special, like the Spectre blanks, I hope all are considering both the rarity and furture of what they build today. It would be interesting seeing a piece in Johnson's book about glass rods 20 years hense and seeing some of those Spectre built rods being listed as classic examples of glass rods made in the new century. It is I think a very good chance for the members of this forum to really show some of their skills that they have been showing for some time in their builds on lessor blanks. Im looking forward later in the year of showing mine off for sure too. I think they will test all of our skills in producing the best rods we can. Richard |
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OhioOutdoorsman |
Re: guides | ||
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All -
I'm interested in everyone's thoughts on sizing agate stripping guides on fly rods. They seem to be sized a bit differently than ceramics, mostly in that the agate is thicker. I've gotten a lot of advice on stripper placement and sizing and mostly I've gotten that it should be as small as possible while still having enough height to allow for a smooth transition to the reel from the first running guide and be large enought to allow easy passage of the line. I guess I also don't see a flat spot in the guide above. I'm not sure what I should be looking for. I also have been told that friction plays almost no roll when casting a fly rod because there is very little compressive force by the line when shooting/casting line. When fighting fish, there is more tension, but with one stripping guide, is this difference really going to matter? My biggest concern with the agate above is that the sharp corners will tear up fly lines. This seems to be the only reel advanctage to cermics to me. Aside from that, I have a hard time seeing how it could matter much. If we were talking spinning rods, it'd be a much different story. Guide placement and weight and guide finishing seem to be much more important from a functional perspective to me. |
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StippledPopper |
Re: guides | ||
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My guess is this is what is meant. The guide appears to be a slice taken from a cylindrical piece of agate. It appears the coin shaped piece was drilled in the center. I believe the point is that the guide would serve better if the edges of the opening were rounded. Another analogy would be what the opening of an old style inner tube looks like.
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flyfishing4goldentrout |
Re: guides | ||
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Hello OhioOutdoorsman'
A very good question. I like to tape up a new blank to the manufactures specifications as to eye placement. Then put the rod under a full load at 10 Oclock and witness the flex. Often lets say its a good solid 6wt blank, I will add weights onto the end of the backing line which I tie off where the seat will be. I have a little home made PVC pipe and aluminum flat stock jig that I wrap up the seat area in newpaper and tape so that it fits snuggly into the pvc pipe pocket. The end of the line is attached to a smallish rubber pail. I add weight in one pound incrememts until I reach my desired maximum working dead weight. at each pound carefully looking at how the rods flex and the angles generated from the line to the eyes. Often I see quite a bit of area I can work with in the area of the placement of the stripping guide and also in respacing the rest of the guides and even adding several to better distribute the weight throught the blank. Anyway thats how I set the stripper placement and guide placements. Often I move the guides around several times trying out different spacings and numbers of guides till I feel comfortable about taking it out to lawn cast and then down to the lake to actually cast it with flyline, leader, tippet and fly to see the total picture of where Im going. As to the sizes of the guides, including the stripper and tip top. I like mine slightly oversized in the loops. The Strippers Ive been using for shortish fly rods have been 10mm, for larger and longer rods often 12mm and for some heavy rods I often use two strippers, one being the 12mm followed by the 10mm. Guide size does make a great deal of difference. Just cast a modern fly line, say a 7wt with an early Phillipson Royal Eponite with smallish double loop guides, or some of the really sweet little Heddons with those same smallish guides, you will not only see a drop in casting range, but also you will hear the line singing threw the guides as it produces friction and drag. You can do the same thing with pre glass fly line bamboo rods, the guide sizing is smallish and modern lines are much thicker than their silk counterparts. If you don't believe it tape up a blank with some early smallish snake sizes and stripper, say a 7-8mm and go out and cast it, with a 7wt line. Then come back up size each guide by one number including the stripper to 10mm and go back out and cast it some more. While I often use standard sized snakes near the tip (#1) snake and sometimes even the next (#2) snake because of the smallish diameter of the blank involved I size up as quickly as possible to reduce friction and drag. The free line in your hand that your feeding during the cast causes friction on the stripper no matter what you do, thus the need for the smoothest hardest surface available, both to cut friction and drag but also to slow line cutting of the guide and wear on the line itself. Oh look at your strippers position in relationship to your reel and the relative position of the fly line when the rod is under a load, it gives you alot of help in better positioning that close stripper you want to reduce all those stressfull angles as much as possible. As to sizing, all should be given as to the inside Diameter of the guides opening. Richard |
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bulldog1935 |
Re: guides | ||
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Cameron, I like that one.
Dwight proposed my Hardy/Fisher blank build with a red agatine, but I asked him to use an old mildrum instead. I have cane rods with red wraps and red agates, but if it doesn't match the rest of the rod, I don't want it. |
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flyfishing4goldentrout |
Stripper selection | ||
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The selection of guides for any such vintage classic rod blank is of course up to the rod maker and client. This blank should be treated no differently.
So saying, whats to be done. This is a 70s blank, there were plenty of expert rod makers around then! Good taste should prevail, a nice agate stripper would fit. A nice Ceramic stripper would fit. A chromed, blued, Mildrum or Carbide Stripper would be nice. I guess my point is, for this rod a guide set needs to be applied, after the guide placement is established. Don't get in a hurry guys, Im sure such as Andy and a few others are working on this very problem. Likewise this is a limited access rod. Whatever I, or anyone else does, its not gonna effect the number of such rods on the market. If we build them well, for our own uses, and our families uses, what else matters. If we are building rods for a living, well good luck, thats a hard trail to follow. But it would be nice to share in this forum the best information we can share. That has always been my opinion. As many members know, I do have some select fly rods, and have offered guide placement and such on a no question basis. I treat this forum as sharing information with fishing buddies. Simple as that. Im sure my limited skills are not gonna limit anyone here with producing a good rod. Im sure that the limited number of rod blanks available to us as a group is not gonna effect the market either. So the free flow of information should be available. I am looking forward to seeing all the neat rods produced from these last two auctions. Mine and Yours. Guess we just need to put our heads together and come up with some neat idea's and combinations. Richard |
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