Hand-tied leaders

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glcaddis	Hand-tied leaders	Lead	[-]
Sport Posts: 3 (05/28/09 19:55:40) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I have been tying all my own leaders for at least 10 years. For most of those years, I used the formulas that Gary Borger developed. They work well and are quite easy to tie. The most common formula I use for nymphs is four feet of Maxima .020; one foot of Maxima .013, four feet of Maxima 2X , and one foot of 4x tippet. The dry fly formula is the same, except use 1X for the second four foot section followed by one foot of 4X and two to three feet of 5X or 6X tippet. I still tie and fish the nymph version. For dry flies, I've gone to the "...new" George Harvey formula that starts with .015 and tapers down by .002; all in 18 inch increments till you reach 2X and then one foot segment of 3X prior to a 24" 4X leader or one foot of 4X prior to a 24 to 36" 5X tippet. This works quite well and gives the best drag free float I've seen. Lately, however, I'm marrying the idea of Borger and Harvey by starting with three feet of .015 followed by three feet of .011 and then the rest per Harvey's formula. So far, this seems to be working fine and is easier to tie. If anyone has similar experience or ideas to share, I'd enjoy reading them and trying the ones that sound good. Tight lines! glcaddis
bassackwards		#1	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 431 (05/28/09 21:01:09) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Yep, I started with the Borger uni-butt method and combined it with a formula from a guy named Long Haired Dave. I think Dave did his own version of a Lefty Kreh formula based on halving the length of the previous segment. It is difficult for me to tie a good blood knot when there is more than .004" difference between the tippet diameters. So, I typically do something like 3' of .025", 1' of .021", 1' of .017", 1' of .013", and 2' of 1X for bass and redfish. LHD showed me that the distance from your wrist to your elbow was a good approximation of 1 foot. He also taught me to use 2-turn blood knots for anything larger than 1X, and the breaking strength for the leader would still be stronger than the tippet. These 2 points let you tie a leader on the water in no time at all. The biggest problem I have been running into lately is tying a leader for a 7' 6 wt rod. The fly line has a tip diameter of .038. So, the butt diameter of the leader should be about 2/3 of that, or .025" The trick is to taper it down to a 3X tippet in 7 feet. I haven't figured out a better way to do it than drop the diameter by 1/3 for each segment and use double surgeon knots. The resulting leader tends to slap the fly on the water. Last Edited By: bassackwards 05/28/09 21:06:20. Edited 2 times.
corlay		#2	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 842 (05/28/09 21:19:37) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	bassackwards wrote: The trick is to taper it down to a 3X tippet in 7 feet. I haven't figured out a better way to do it than drop the diameter by 1/3 for each segment and use double surgeon knots. The resulting leader tends to slap the fly on the water. I'm very new to this hand-tied game, but I've had reasonable success with the Bergman formulas for wets, listed in the LeaderCalc spread sheet. All sections are equal length, typically ~15"; also using a double or triple surgeon's depending upon thicknesses. I typically make a 7.5' leader with a 3x tippet for most of my wet-fly fishing. For dries, I've been experimenting with furled, and a ~3' length of tippet one the end - no hand-tied formula there. It's been a fun and interesting Spring, so far... "From my observations I think that most of us spend too much time worrying about our tackle and too little time learning the intimate characteristics of the fish and streams we fish most." - Ray Bergman Trout, New York: Knopf 1938
glcaddis	Seven feet to 3X	#3	[-]
Sport Posts: 4 (05/31/09 18:34:31) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I'd suggest nail knotting one foot of 30 lb test Amnesia to your fly line. Tie a loop in it and add a six foot leader that starts with .021, 3 feet, .017 18", .013 9", and tie the 3X to the .013 with a double surgeons knot. I've used this on a number of short leaders for 7 foot rods. While my short rods are 3 and 4 weights and usually start with 20 lb test Amnesia and .017 or .015; the basic formula is the same and it works well.
gaddis		#4	[-]
Posts: 457 (06/25/09 11:18:10) Mr. Shakespeare Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Years ago I bought a leader tie kit from Orvis. It's stocked with Pezon and Michel leader material. I still make my own leaders from this kit, using the formulas provided with it. Works for me. On my local waters I don't use a knotted leader due to the frequency of getting caught in trees. But when I am fishing bigger water I prefer the knotted leaders. I've never really bothered to experiment with different leader formulas.
whrlpool		#5	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 875 (06/26/09 05:20:23) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I have always tied my own leaders, using ready-mades only a few times. I've used every "formula" out there and am now right back to the basic concept--a taper that transfers energy as it dissipates to the fly--and the 60/20/20 starting point (60 percent in two or three sections of the larger diameters; 20 percent taper in two or three shorter sections; 20 percent tippet). But I don't measure anything anymore, and just use spools of mono from 30 # test down or roughly .025 down. For the butt section, I find the diameter that has about the same stiffness as the end of the fly line. Nail knot. Initially I tie the rest of the leader from there; once that leader is used up, I cut back the butt section and put a perfection loop about 6" from the nail knot. then I'll use a loop to loop connection, starting with another leader whose first section matches that line's permanent loop. The rest is all feel and and consideration of conditions, fly sizes and so on. I tie new leaders virtually every day before fishing, and often several times during the day of fishing. A typical one--eyeballed only--for an all around day with a 5 or six weight would have 2' of, say, .020, 1.5' of .018 or .017, 1' of .015/4, then 8" of .013/2, 6" of .011, 8" of 2X. Then I'd tie on 20" of 3x tippet, which might be the starter diameter, or I'd shorten it and tie smaller tippets from there. I'd watch the leader and adjust it as necessary astream, or simply tie another with the needed changes I observed--longer, shorter, stiffer and so on. One little thing to remember in making your own leaders is to strike the term "wind knot" from your vocabulary. This is just a face-saving term for beginners anyway, as it really means "casting knot," but even good casters will get knots with ill-contoured leaders, usually in the last 2 feet, and especially if the fly is bulky or heavy. That "leader knot" is telling you exactly where your leader needs an adjustment. I usually tie mine with sections a bit longer than I think necessary, since I can cut the knots and shorten any sections as needed very easily astream.
JohnLL	My $.02	#6	[-]
Sport Posts: 3 (06/28/09 11:29:26) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I tie my own because I think the .21 or.23 butt factory leaders are too stiff for a 4 wt or even a 5 wt. Mine mix Borger style with a bit of Harvey. I use 54" of .17, 20" of .13, 16" of .10 and then tippet ring. This is a semi-permanent 7.5' leader base. Add a bit of 3x or 4x for streamers, or build it up to 11 or 12', which is what I normal do. All my leader knots are uni to uni, which is much easier for me to tie than bloods and hang straight unlike surgeon knots. The uni's are also great for making droppers. Tie a half hitch around the leader with the top tag end (the one nearest to the fly line). The dropper hangs perpendicular to the leader and is less likely to tangle than using the bottom tag of a surgeon. Of course you do not need loop to loop with a tippet ring leader, a nail knot will do. I really like the Whitlock Zap-a-Gap connection. It is great to reel up a 12' leader on a 8' rod without dragging a knot or loop through the guides. I have been experimenting with the use of a hi vis piece of mono as a strike indicator. The Euro nymphers seem to like a 6-12" piece of gold Stren positioned towards the middle of the leader. Wrap the Stren around a pencil in uniform coils ~ 1/16" apart. Mark the Stren on one or two facets of the pencil with a black permanent pen. The contrast of the black and gold helps detect movement. I tie as the leader above except the .13 (Stren) is 12", and the .10 is 24". I have not decided what I think of this as a strike indicator. It is certainly not reliable fishing beyond 30' feet and it can disappear to my old eyes well inside that depending on the light. On the other hand it has the facility of reappearing sometimes when you have a strike and it flashes. [Edit: I hot linked the photo for you. Check out the Photo Posting thread for some picture instructions. Tom] Last Edited By: jgestar 06/28/09 13:05:35. Edited 1 times.
rvreclus		#7	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 332 (06/28/09 11:54:05) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I'm with Gaddis and Whlrpool, I tie my own and have been since the late 80's. I use the same 60/20/20 formula and adapt it to my needs. I use Maxima Chameleon and Ultra Green, I have heard all the arguments against using this material, but it works for me and I find it to be very consistent, even if it is thicker than stated on the spool. I adapt my tippets to the fishing situation I'm in, by using Umpqua tippet material when I want thinner diameter tippets. Respectfully rvreclus
jgestar		#8	[-]
Posts: 3787 (06/28/09 14:15:12) ezOP Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	John, I know what you mean about indicators disappearing beyond 30 feet away. I live in Kansas. Once the heat of the summer is on, it is much more comfortable (and productive) to fish after dark. I tied a bunch of Chernobyl Ants with a strip of glow in the dark foam on top. I expected to see a little glowing dot on the water, but no such luck. Beyond about 20 feet, the fly was invisible. I still have to strike by sound. On the other hand, I can clearly see the glowing foam in the fish's mouth when I unhook it, which helps immensely. Has anyone else ever noticed that fish get bigger at night? Tom
fred1369		#9	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 61 (06/29/09 10:49:07) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Maxima Chameleon and Ultragreen are great combos for nymph and streamers, I use Umpqua tippet for dries, it's a little more limp... The 60/40/40 formulas work good for turnover. Tom, Yes, the fish get "bigger" at night! I'm a striped bass flyrodder and that's the way for stripers, but I have been applying night fishing to trout for a whille now with excellent results. They move into the feed zone in the cover of darkness.
waynebh		#10	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 238 (07/01/09 07:53:28) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hi JohnLL; When using the uni knot for leader construction, how many turns do you use in the knot? Do you vary the number of turns for the line size? Waynebh
JohnLL		#11	[-]
Sport Posts: 4 (07/03/09 08:55:48) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I use 4 turn uni's in the tippet sections of the leader. Uni's are shorter but fatter than bloods knots, and even thought it should not matter to any sane person, I use 3 turn uni's for the .17/.13 and .13/.10 connections. I draw the knots together so they kiss but are still fairly loose, apply some Zap a Gap, and then tighten. It is just to have smaller knots. The instructions for the Tie Fast tool suggest 3 turn nail to nail for leader construction. I could be that 3 turn uni's would work thought out the leader, but that is not what I do. The best, John
glcaddis	Great Discussion	#12	[-]
Sport Posts: 7 (07/03/09 19:26:14) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks to everyone for their great hints and comments. I've enjoyed reading every one. While we all spent a lot of time on flies and rods, the leader is very important to getting a good presentation. Keep it up!

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