I am in the process of repairing a Fenwick Fiberglass Spinning Rod.
I need thin wire 0.050" foul proof guides to keep the rod original.
If you have what I need please send me a PM.
Thanks in advance.
Tight Lines and Foul Proof Loops
Andy M
photo by JeffSod |
![]() |
| Author | Comment | ||
|---|---|---|---|
OLD YANKEE |
Foul Proof Guides Wanted |
Lead | |
|
Hello
I am in the process of repairing a Fenwick Fiberglass Spinning Rod. I need thin wire 0.050" foul proof guides to keep the rod original. If you have what I need please send me a PM. Thanks in advance. Tight Lines and Foul Proof Loops Andy M
'FISH AND VISITORS STINK AFTER 3 DAYS' " DON'T FORGET THE BACKBONE" " REMEMBER TO SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL FISHERY"
|
|||
majicwrench |
|||
|
Andy,
Just tried PMing you and it didn't work??? but I have an old Fenwick fly/spin with 4 of those goulproofs, a little distorted and a bit of corrosion, but I would trade you for a pair of your fav flies ( I have a "collection" of flies I've gotten from others) I'll try a pm later... Keith |
|||
OLD YANKEE |
|||
|
Hello Keith
Sounds great ! I'll send you a dozen of my secret weapon flies provided you keep them to yourself. I'll shoot you a PM so we can work out the details. Thanks you're a rod saver ! Tight Lines and Traded Loops Andy M
'FISH AND VISITORS STINK AFTER 3 DAYS' " DON'T FORGET THE BACKBONE" " REMEMBER TO SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL FISHERY"
|
|||
flyfishing4goldentrout |
|||
|
Hi Andy don't know whats up with your yuku messaging, I tried it too and it just won't load. Anyway if you need any others, I picked up several boxes
of NOS original Aetna Foulproof guides recently. The larger are spinning guides being heavier gauge wire of course. Anyway I have these sizes; Loop ID 1
3/4" foot to foot 5", ID 1 1/8" foot to foot 3 1/2", in the finer wire sizes your looking for I have, ID 7/16" foot to foot 1
7/8", ID 5/16" foot to foot 1 3/4", ID 1/4" foot to foot 1 7/8", and finally ID 5/32" foot to foot 1 7/16".
Richard |
|||
OLD YANKEE |
|||
|
Hello Richard
I sent Keith a PM it sends fine ? Maybe one of the administrators can check it out ? Thanks for letting me know there is a problem ! Guys I have no clue how to size these puppies. The rod is a mint FS70 7' 5.3/8oz the rod looks brand new with the exception of missing one guide. Here are the measurements of the guides on either side of the one that is missing. Total length from end of foot to end of foot = 2.5/8" ID of loop = 5/8" Total length from end of foot to end of foot = 2" ID of loop = 3/8" I need the guide to go in between measuring the witness mark of the guide that is missing I get A total length from end of foot to end of foot = 2.3/16 " I took someones advice here that the boat guides offered at mud hole etc are the same and ordered a whole set. They are not even close and the wire is twice the size. The spinning rod guides that are smaller wire are still not as small a diameter and don't come close either. If both you guys want to send me a sample of what you have I will be glad to send you both a dozen flies ? Thanks for your help. Tight Lines and Size Matters Loops Andy M
'FISH AND VISITORS STINK AFTER 3 DAYS' " DON'T FORGET THE BACKBONE" " REMEMBER TO SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL FISHERY"
|
|||
jgestar |
|||
|
I'll look into the PM problem tonight. I have limited access to the system during the day due to a corporate firewall. I have seen this before, but it was
very limited.
Tom Edit: Clicking on Andy's user name takes me to his profile page so I can send a message. For those who couldn't get it to work, did you get a "Page 404; That user is not found" kind of message? Tom
Last Edited By: jgestar
04/20/09 17:20:17.
Edited 1 times.
|
|||
flyfishing4goldentrout |
|||
|
Hi Andy, yea there was another group of guides up that I missed on bet the one between the big sizes is one that I missed that you need, I was interested in
getting the fly rod sized guides and the bigger ones including the medium sized spinning guides slipped by me. What surprised me was how active the bidding
was, guess there are alot of people out there trying to repair or replace damaged or missing Foulproof guides. Best way I know to size them is by the ID and
foot to foot, often you can get close by the old wrap witness mark measurements. The two really big guides are heavy wire, I don't think your gonna want
them on a light rod like that, they are more for the big 10ft surf rods, just came with the group I got, but the smaller ones are all just like on my 1950s
Silaflex rods and what you might want to consider, the four smaller sized ones I have can easily fit into a padded mailer if you want them. Let me know if you
want the four smaller ones I will get them off to you in a padded mailer.
Another option if you cant find exactly that Aetna light wire guide, is one Ive been forsed to use myself. Ive stripped alot of those Japanese post war bamboo combo rods down, the spinning set uses a Japanese Knockoff Foulproof guide, a darn good one too, only difference is that on the authentic Aetna guide the rear foot extension comes off the top of the loop, on the Japanese knockoff the loop comes down to the 9 Oclock position before forming the foot extension. In the case you want to give it a look, I have one thats pretty darn close to what your looking for, wire size is about the same thickness as the Aetna too. Foot to Foot its 2 7/16" but the flat ground feet on each end are extra long, so it could easily be cut back to your exact Foot to Foot requirements. The Loop ID is 19/32nds, at least smaller than your larger guide. Anyway its worth thought if you think you want to give it a try I will include it. Richard
Last Edited By: flyfishing4goldentrout
04/20/09 15:58:54.
Edited 1 times.
|
|||
majicwrench |
|||
|
Tom,
I got right to his profile page and then clicked "message" and everything just stopped there ?? Andy, Gonna send you all 4, two are quite small, but I'll bet the one with the 1/2" loop ID is the one you want. Keith |
|||
flyfishing4goldentrout |
|||
|
Hi Tom, same thing happened to me when I went to his profile page, clicked on message, everything just froze their for me. Late last night I messaged him by
simply typing in his yuku user name in send message and it work perfectly. Frankly I suspect its a problem on my end now. Slow dialup trying to load his full
profile, its quite large and when your are megga slow dialup it takes about 30 minutes to load his profile completely and I could find no way to interupt the
data transfer after I entered his profile but to close my internet connection and then restart it. Im sure you guys with your ultra fast internet connections
are aware today of what its like to live in the land of fast 14.4k dialup and sometimes a download speed of 200 bits during a busy day on the internet.
For everyone who has been following this string, I found a new unopened box of Aetna Guides in my parts cabinate last night, and this is the way the factory identified their product. "Style FT" "Size 5/32" so I guess if you needed to replace a guide back then you needed to know style and ring ID. In our case sense there are few places where we can get the size of a missing guide we are still gonna have to measure the missing guides witness marks in the imprint of the old wrap, then guess which of several it could be by measuring the ring ID of the guides before and after the missing guide. Then of course finding an original Aetna Foulproof guide. The smaller ones are on thin wire and don't change to the heavier wire until you get up into surf rod sizes. Anyway we did solve the question of how these guys were originally sized, now if anybody has a guide use chart for Silaflex and Fenwick to name just two companies it sure would be helpful, otherwise we are still left guessing it in without having the actual guide that needs to be replaced. Richard |
|||
Andymanyankee |
|||
|
Hello
Keith and Richard Thanks you guys are both top notch. Richard thanks for straighting out the sizing question. It is difficult at best to try and figure out what size you need when only replacing one. Again thanks and Keith I posted your flies this morning. Tight Lines and Foul Proof Rod Savers Loops Andy M "FISH AND VISITORS STINK AFTER 3 DAYS" THE GUY THAT SAID MONEY CAN'T BUY YOU HAPPINESS NEVER BOUGHT A FLY ROD FROM ME ! "http://OLD-YANKEE.u.yuku.com/?referredby=OL |
|||
JeffK |
|||
|
I bought some Foulproof guides at Schneiders. They were a touch heavier wire than the old Heddon fly rod I have, but were lighter than the saltwater ones I
have seen. They seemed about right for a spinning rod.
|
|||
uncle jake |
Maybe this will help... | ||
|
I recently purchased the rod building stock of a rod and reel shop that has been out of business for 20 years. I am still sorting everything out but I have
quite a few foulfproof guides. BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY... in this mess I also have the AETNA display board with examples of all of the foulproofs that they made
shrink sealed into the display. It seems there were seven different lines of foulproofs from "Ultra Light Fly and Spinning" to Heavy
Saltwater". Based on your measurements you likely have standard "Spinning Guides". The ones you describe on either side is listed on the
display as SP-5/8 and SP-3/8 and the one in between is an SP-1/2. The other styles don't add up to your dimentions when you compare ID to foot length.
If Ol' Uncle Jake can figure this computer thing out I have a picture of this display I can post... and if needed i can look to see if I have one of the SP-1/2 foulproof guides.. jake
Last Edited By: uncle jake
04/21/09 19:33:09.
Edited 1 times.
|
|||
flyfishing4goldentrout |
|||
|
Welcome to the board Uncle Jake,
WOW thats an awsome asset, would love to see a picture of that board, absolutely priceless. I doubt many of them exist today. The Aetna foulproof guides are entirely different than the many others produced by other manufactures as "FoulProof" Guides. Here are a few examples of some of the more common styles seen Classic Aetna Loop style wire guide, not how the long foot comes off in an upward angle at 12 Oclock
off to the left side at 9 Oclock
quality control in keeping the loops uniform the longer foot comes off at 4 Oclock
Richard |
|||
jgestar |
|||
|
Uncle Jake,
Welcome to the Fiberglass Flyrodders! There is a set of picture posting instructions at the top of the Rod Pictures forum. It works best with a PhotoBucket account, because then you can post your photos anywhere on the web. You purchased an entire rod/reel shop? That must be an interesting story. I take it you are a rod builder? Please tell! Tom |
|||
Andymanyankee |
|||
|
Hello
Welcome Jake . This is what makes our site such a special place the members new and old that are so willing to help out. Since the beginning when we were all considered odd because of our at the time unpopular passion for fiberglass. "Fiberglass you must be stuck in the 60's" was always one my favorites or" is that fiberglass you must be crazy". Well I must say all us "odd ball crazies" that are "stuck in the 60's" are having one heck of a good time with the amount of people that now have a new or renewed interest in Fiberglass, that speaks volumes. Look at how a simple request for help has actually evolved into a thread on foulproof guide sizing,style,etc. I think it's great and the fellow who owns this crippled Fenwick will be one happy camper too . Thanks again ! Tight Lines and Fiberglass Fly Rodders Loops Andy M "FISH AND VISITORS STINK AFTER 3 DAYS" THE GUY THAT SAID MONEY CAN'T BUY YOU HAPPINESS NEVER BOUGHT A FLY ROD FROM ME ! "http://OLD-YANKEE.u.yuku.com/?referredby=OL |
|||
eagleman43 |
|||
|
Andy
It sounds like you have what you need, but if not I have a box of Gudebrod foulproofs (GT 11) marked for a 6 1/2' spinning rod. One guide is 2 1/4" long with a 1/2" opening. If you need it PM me. RY |
|||
corlay |
question on function | ||
|
what would be the advantage of using a foul-proof guide on a spin/fly rod,
vs. using something like a Phillipson Spiral style guide? just curious.
"From my observations I think that most of us spend too much time worrying about our tackle and too little time
learning the intimate characteristics of the fish and streams we fish most."
- Ray Bergman
Trout, New York: Knopf 1938 |
|||
flyfishing4goldentrout |
|||
|
Hi Corey,
Lets think about this and talk our way through it a little then see what comments we get from others. Personally I like the Phillipson loop tyle spiral guides best. What does a snake guide do. First its lightweight, secondly its not a continuous loop or ring so when the rod is fully at the back swing of the cast and fully flexed on the backbone its not creating the dampining effect of a full ringed two footed guide (see Im thinking here of the single footed guides, they produce the least of all reverse damping). When the rod is in full deflection the stiffness created by the snake guide is based on the effects of the wire thickness, length of foot and overwraps, also the distance between the feet can widen the "dead spot" although as you can see by most deflection pictures of loaded rods with guides in place those effects of the guides can be so small that no flat spots are seen and only if you were to try fishng that same blank with a tip top only and line on the end like an old worm rod would you know if the same blank was as sensitive with the guides or without them. Although that might be an interesting test, put on the tip top, tie up some line, put a worm on and catch some fish. Then when the rod is done, instead of fly fishing for a bit, put a hook and worm on the end of the tippet and catch some more fish and see if you can really tell the difference. Anyway Whats different with a Foulproof in a spin fly configuration. Longer foot spacing, a continuous looping ring but not solid. During the backcast the rings will open and create less dampening than a full ring guide will produce. Same holds true for a Phillipson style loop guide, but the feet are smaller and closer together. On some old English style fly rods bridged full ring guides similar to our stripping guides are used. This would create the most damping both in the backcast or forward flex. What are some of the other things we can say. A ring style guide will help control line slap on the blank the full ring really makes a difference here, especially if the line is wet or even iced. Whats the best kind of guide, most likely a single footed ring type, but its the makers and buyers choice. Personally they are a bit to modern looking to me to use on a bamboo or glass rod. I think they look just fine on Graphite and make tons of sense on an UL rod. Fact is on my glass UL projects I plan on using them exclusively to see if I can make myself a 1-2wt and a 3wt Im really happy with so I can retire my Orvis superfine ULs. If your picking a set of guides for a Glass Spin Fly think about this. If you look at the Phillipson Spin fly pack rods, they use two bridged ring type twin footed guides, usually moderately large and medium sized spinning guides. Long feet, bridged and very solid. They produce as much dead space as most metal ferrules. On most of the Phillipson Spin Flys they use the spiral hoop style guides forward of the bridged guides, a few use snakes forward. Look then at a Fenwick, early Silaflex or 70s Conolon Spin Fly, they are all using some form of foulproof guide sets or at least the two big spinning guides anyway. In all these cases you have flexable loops without bridges. Which do you think offers the least damping and dead spots in a rods action and feel? For a spin fly I would pick the fine wire Aetna guides every time for a vintage glass rod, only when I would move into an UL graphite Spin Fly then I would be using again those single footed ring type guides for the very least dampening and dead spots. I really like the Phillipson guides for a vintage fly rod though, I think they help reduce the line slap problem. Whats your thoughts? Richard |
|||
corlay |
|||
flyfishing4goldentrout wrote:well... I think that there are 2 important criteria when designing a spin/fly: 1. Guide Size The first few guides must be sized large enough to deal with the swirling motion of monofiliment being retrieved on a spinning reel. This results in probably choosing a guide somewhat larger than you would if it were a straight-away fly rod. 2. Guide Style I think the guide style chosen must isolate the monofilament spinning line from the blank, thus some sort of loop-style must be chosen. A traditional fly rod snake style guide wouldn't work well. I think the much thinner mono spinning line would "stick" to the blank when wet, un-like a fly line. your thoughts on foot style/spacing make sense, too. what style guide is going to accomplish my #1 and #2 criteria, and have the least amount of dampening affect on the rod's casting properties? given all of this, I'm guessing that a few (2-max.) foul-proof guides down low, to serve as the Stripping guides when in fly rod mode, and oversized enough to work well for spinning, too is probably the ticket. From there I'd probably choose Phillipson spiral guides the rest of the way, up to the tip-top. Optimally sized for fly casting, I think; at the expense of spinning performance. But given all these compromises that must be made, when designing a rod for 2 separate functions; in reality I'd probably just opt for 2 4-5 pc. blanks that pack well; one for fly and one for spin. This fly-spin dream seems to be one that no-one's really solved yet, IMO. Another idea would be to build a rod with 2 separate butt sections, one for fly, one for spin; with stripping guides optimized for each function; and then they could share the tip section(s). This would also solve that weird "Tenessee Style" straight cork handle with sliding rings compromise that the vintage spin/fly rods all seem to use.
"From my observations I think that most of us spend too much time worrying about our tackle and too little time
learning the intimate characteristics of the fish and streams we fish most."
- Ray Bergman
Trout, New York: Knopf 1938
Last Edited By: corlay
04/22/09 11:56:35.
Edited 1 times.
|
|||
flyfishing4goldentrout |
|||
|
Yes No Maybe lets think about it in a fresh context.
1st buy blank uncut of you can. Then you make the critical ferruling decisions. So saying why not a standard fly rod seat, either uplocking or downlocking all aluminum or even a nifty wood insert type, just don't glue in the metal butt cap. Use your choice of fly rod grips, I like cigar for this purpose. Now the important part, make up a solid glass butt extension just like some you've Im sure you've seen for fighting butts, but this time make it say 8 to 12 inches long. In any style of cork you like, with any kind of butt end piece you like. I prefer solid glass for this, and forming the cork rings right onto the extension and then turning it down in my bench mounted drill motor. If your tapered fit is good for the extension into the reel seat lets say 4 inches into a 5 inch seat and into the full section of the fly rod blank still supported under the reel seat, and it fits nice and snug into the fly rod taper, then I would suggest that while you have the works chucked up into your drill motor you cut small groves into the portion thats going into your reel seat rod butt. Just right to put a couple of O rings on that will give you that little bit extra hold when you've got the butt installed. So now you've got a butt section with a fly rod seat, a fly rod forgrip and cut to length to size properly with your other parts. One thing you have to keep in mind with a spinning rod is that there is a direct relationship with the reel bail line roller rotating diameter, the distance to your first big spinning guide, its ID and height held above the blank. Everything here can cause you problems if you create stresses by having the ring diameter of your first guide to big or small in relationship to your rotating diameter of the bail roller feeding and picking up your line. Likewise the hight off the rod of this first ring can greatly effect the stress on the ring, wrapping, rod and line if its too low or high. If to high it effects the location and size of your second spinning guide as well. The step down between the first and second spinning guide needs to carry that same stress flow or lack of stress down low to the blank to finally get to some smaller fly guides. In all of the cases of factory spin fly rods I have, 5-7wts, they are designed around a smallish reel in the size of a Mitchell 308/408 or a mitchell 300/410 series, both are relatively low to the seat mounting and both have relatively small bail rotation diameters allowing smallish spinning guides. This of course is a real compromise if your going to use a fly reel with those same guides. Often the first big guide serves no real purpose its just so darn big. On my four piece Phillipson spin fly pack rods the first section has no guide, the second section carries the fly guides, so if you had two blanks you could make two different second sections one with the two spinning guides the other with one stripping guide mounted on the upper third of the second section at a traditional distance. On the third and fourth sections you could use any kind of guide you want. On one Phillipson supplied 3M four piece scotchply fullflex blank spin fly Camper Special rod Orvis used one large spin guide on section two, on section three one spin guide and one snake guide, on section four three snake guides. rod is a 7ft 7wt given, a Mitchell 300 size reel fits the guide size and hieght perfectly. On a second and earlier Orvis Spin Fly Fullflex Pack Rod based on the same blank, there are two bridged spinning guides on section two, three snake guides on section three and three snake guides on section four. The Orvis Rods are wrapped by Orvis. On an identical Blank, this time wrapped and labeled by Orvis as OEM for Eddie Bauer, the rod is called a Fly and Spin 7ft 7wt, the second section has one large spin guide like the first rod above, the Third section has one spinning guide like the first rod above but the second guide on this section is a large Phillipson double loop style. The four section has one Large Phillipson double loop guide and two small Phillipson double loop guide. Finally on my 7 1/2ft Phillipson Spin Fly four piece 6wt Swamp Fox Deluxe based on a slightly longer version of this same Scotchply blank and tip over butt glass ferrules, this time PHILLIPSON followed or shall I say sense it was produced before any of the above, followed the pattern of one Spinner on the second section, one on the Third and Phillipsons double loop guides the rest of the way up. The spinner on this rod also fit the Mitchell 400 bail rotation diameter. So you could trash the Tenessee grip, go with one butt section with a removable rubber plug, a fly seat of your choice, a fly grip of your choice, a removeable spinning rod butt section, two mid or second sections, one set up for a fly rod with one stripper high up, the other set up with a big spinning guide. Your Third section could most likely be set up with a large stripper to replace the spinning guide, Id guess a size 16 stripper would fit ok, might be about right for your second section stripper size as well, Im sure you could do the math and set it up right so your big guide on the third section would properly work. Finally all your fly guides could be Phillipson double loops. Walla a spin fly. You would end up with a removable butt and 5 fly rod sections vs the same rod above with no removable butt and four sections. You should talk to someone like Mike McFarland, Im sure he could make you a blank with five sections the second section being duplicates for a four piece rod, you could make your own butt extension out of solid glass fishing rod stock yourself at that point. With Mike making the rod sections the ferrules would be perfect fits and you could come up with alot better selection of fly rod weights, how about a nice short 4 or 5wt that would work with a little 408 mitchell, its mega low to the blank and small bail rotation that would greatly simplify your guide sizing. The Lee Wulff four piece pack rod was designed and tested around the 308/408 sized reel but had no butt extension or Tenessee grip in its final form. Richard
Last Edited By: flyfishing4goldentrout
04/22/09 13:48:15.
Edited 1 times.
|
|||