recommended leader gauge?

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corlay	recommended leader gauge?	Lead	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 225 (09/16/08 14:33:10) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hi All. I was wondering: Do most of you follow a published manufacturer's leader/tippet gauge recommendations, when rigging-up your fly rods? The reason I ask is, I just recently noticed this chart, printed on the back of my 7.5' Orvis 'Super Strong' knotless tapered leader. I says, that for a #12-#10 hook, I should be using a 3x-4x? Heck, I'm using 5x-6x leader on a DT5F line, right now. And I've got 3 #10-#12 wet flies on. And I bet that chart is for dry fly light-wire hooks, not heavy gauge nymph/wet fly hooks. Should I up-size? Will I have a much easier time of things in doing so? I've always been advised that one should select the lightest leader/tippet that one can manage. With my current rig, I do manage ok - most of the time. But when I do make a mess of a cast due to either poor technique, improvised/creative presentation, windy conditions, etc. it's usually a doozey. I think I'm going to rig-up with a 3x my next time out, just to see if it helps? Light leader/tippet isn't really all that crucial when fishing sub-surface in fast-moving water. And maybe achieving better balance from line to leader to tippet would make things more pleasurable overall? 3x just seems so heavy, though. I typically use that size for my 2 "tags" of flies, staggered above the 3rd fly @ end of my leader/tippet. The stiffness helps to prevent "bird's nests" I've found. But can't imagine that size for the whole leader. Seems too stiff, but maybe not? Who knows. Any advice would be most appreciated. "From my observations I think that most of us spend too much time worrying about our tackle and too little time learning the intimate characteristics of the fish and streams we fish most." - Ray Bergman Trout, New York: Knopf 1938
cofisher		#1	[-]
Posts: 966 (09/16/08 15:04:07) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Corey, anything you read about line recommendations or leader recommendations are just that, recommendations. You don't have to do anything anyone says except your wife and Game & Fish. That being said, you'll find it almost if not totally impossible to put an #18 fly on a 3x leader because the leader is too big. For most trout fishing I use between 4x and 6x. But, under conditions where the trout are spooky, you may need a 7x with very small flies In high rough water you can go up to 3x and the fish will never see it because of the water conditions but you'll be fishing larger flies. Experiment and don't let things like this drive you crazy. The fish will let you know how you're doing. Good Luck. Last Edited By: cofisher 09/16/08 15:11:54. Edited 1 times.
dudley		#2	[-]
Sport Posts: 75 (09/16/08 16:40:45) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	corlay wrote I've always been advised that one should select the lightest leader/tippet that one can manage. I've always looked at it the other ways around..... Always use the heaviest tippet you can get away with
gypsy		#3	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 312 (09/16/08 17:11:17) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I'm with dudley especially when fishing wets/nymphs. size ten flies will cast/turn over a lot easier w/ a 3x tippet than with a 5-6x tippet.
corlay		#4	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 226 (09/16/08 17:16:10) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	thanks for the replies, so far... well, I'm going out tomorrow, and I stopped by the fly shop to pick-up some 7.5' 3x leader, that I'll extend with a ~12" 4x tippet. I'm going to try this rig, with my standard #10-#12 3 wet fly setup; and see what happens... It's fun to experiment. "From my observations I think that most of us spend too much time worrying about our tackle and too little time learning the intimate characteristics of the fish and streams we fish most." - Ray Bergman Trout, New York: Knopf 1938
Rockthief		#5	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 851 (09/16/08 17:49:05) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	tie a bunch for yourself and you will eventually find the length and X rating tht suits you and your style of fishing. How many times have we been fishing with 6x or 7x and a chuck of a fish nails the fly and takes three feet of tippet for a swim? I have one such incident in mind. Heck of a fish. Wonder if it is still in the deep swirling pool?
Bamboozle		#6	[-]
Guide Posts: 120 (09/16/08 18:03:20) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	What Dud said! Most of the time; a lousy presentation can be more about tippet size than anything else.
wacokid54	Fearless Leader	#7	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 279 (09/17/08 08:41:10) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Based on the recomendation of a local glass and bamboo wet fly fisher here in Colorado, Bill Edrington, I use 3x when fishing wets. Especially for #14s and #12s. I don't have any #10s !! Even though it is expensive, I have switched over to flourocarbon. If my wet flies are not weighted, I think they sink better with flouro. So, I use a knottless tapered leader 7 1/2 ft. tapered to 3x, and 3x flouro to connect all my flies. Maximum, for me, of 2 flies. I am the tangle king, and 3 is just too much. Good luck! wacokif54
corlay		#8	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 229 (09/17/08 09:04:21) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	wacokid54 wrote: Based on the recomendation of a local glass and bamboo wet fly fisher here in Colorado, Bill Edrington, I use 3x when fishing wets. roger that. I'm going with a 3x leader today. I'll report back with my impressions over the 5x-6x that I've been using to date. Especially for #14s and #12s. I don't have any #10s !! yeah, I was both skeptical and skeerd when I jumped from #12's to 10's. My father only ties #10's now, and that was my supply until I started learning to tie this year. I also met a "Master Tier" of wet flies this year. (His work is georgeous) And he fishes mostly #8's!!! And catches plenty of fish. (He always says: "I'll stop tying #8's when the fish tell me to.") So, #10's no longer seemed like a stretch, to me. Actually I still tie most of my imitation-types in a #12. But for the flashy attractors like Professor, Montreal, Grizzly King, etc. I'm tying them as #10's now. And catching fish, most importantly... There seems to be absolutely no correlation between size of hook (within reason) and size of fish it will take. Cameron lands those western-lunkers on his #20-something midges, and I've caught plenty of 5" Brookies on my #10's...LOL! Even though it is expensive, I have switched over to flourocarbon. If my wet flies are not weighted, I think they sink better with flouro Yeah, I had set-out to pick up some Orvis 'Mirage" floro, but my fly shop only had 5x,6x,7x in stock. I will get some for next Spring, though. Better sinking (but weaker?) than nylon... Interesting side-note: I'm reading the book referenced in my signature, right now. Bergman extols the goal of a high-floating line and a sinking leader when fishing dries. Claims the sunken leader produces less shadow and is less visible to the fish? Not sure if this is conventional wisdom today, though. This was written back in '38... Maximum, for me, of 2 flies. I am the tangle king, and 3 is just too much. On my last outing with my Dad, he was telling me about a neighbor of his, back in the 60's-70's that fished a 6 wet fly rig!!! Six! Can you imagine!... "From my observations I think that most of us spend too much time worrying about our tackle and too little time learning the intimate characteristics of the fish and streams we fish most." - Ray Bergman Trout, New York: Knopf 1938 Last Edited By: corlay 09/17/08 09:09:54. Edited 1 times.
rvreclus		#9	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 149 (09/17/08 09:11:33) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Corlay, I'm with Dudley and second Rockthief's recommendation. Since I've returned to the practice of tying my own leaders, I experience better turn over and presentation then with the knot less variety. This has been a real benefit with multiple fly presentations, I don't tangle and the leaders turn over. I have them in multiple lengths for various depths and fly sizes. They are easily tied and you can find leader formulas everywhere. Respectfully RV Reclus As an end note I tie leaders in various lengths and add my tippets to these when on the stream. Multi fly leaders have extentions at the knots from long tag ends left uncut and ready to attache a fly where wanted. Last Edited By: rvreclus 09/17/08 09:17:57. Edited 1 times.
corlay		#10	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 230 (09/17/08 09:24:28) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	rvreclus wrote: Multi fly leaders have extentions at the knots from long tag ends left uncut and ready to attache a fly where wanted. I may give this a shot, next Spring. what knot do you use to build your leaders? I just hate tying blood knots. So, I've started using double or triple Surgeon's knot, depending upon tippet gauge. Just curious. "From my observations I think that most of us spend too much time worrying about our tackle and too little time learning the intimate characteristics of the fish and streams we fish most." - Ray Bergman Trout, New York: Knopf 1938
bulldog1935		#11	[-]
Posts: 3635 (09/17/08 10:05:08) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I hate high-strength tippet material. Nylon if you need to float, fluorocarbon to sink - always Umpqua.
jgestar		#12	[-]
Posts: 2729 (09/17/08 11:42:38) ezOP Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I'm going back to plain old nylon. The two biggest fish I've hooked this year* popped the knots in the fluorocarbon tippet. No matter how carefully I tie the knot, despite wetting the knots, no matter how hard I cinch and pull, my fluorocarbon knots fail with little provocation. I only use store bought tapered leaders when I'm fishing in ponds with lots of algae. The goo gets all over the knots and makes casting harder. Otherwise, braided/furled leaders for dries and hand tied leaders (Maxima) for everything else. Corey, blood knots aren't too bad to tie at home, but they are a bear when I'm standing next to the water. It's easier to have a couple of extra leaders tied up ahead of time, rather than prepping one on the water. Tom * Of course they were the biggest fish - they struck the hardest!
bulldog1935		#13	[-]
Posts: 3637 (09/17/08 11:48:45) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	it's probably the brand/ strength of the fluorocarbon. Fluorocarbon is not inherently brittle - were you using Umpqua? Have you seen the fish I've been catching on 3X fluorcarbon this year?
wacokid54		#14	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 282 (09/17/08 12:59:53) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Bulldog, that is a great photo of a great bass! Do you use 3X for all your wet fly and streamer fishing in those beautiful Texas streams? And why so high on Umpqua? Tom, I have been using flouro a lot the past two years, and have had very little problem with knot failure. My breakage has been mostly carelessness of not cutting off and re tying the the fly on to a fresh, full strength tippet end after catching a few fish. I use mostly Orvis flouro, and some Rio flouro. I usually use double surgeons knot to attach tippet, and standard clinch knot to attach fly. How about you? wacokid54
bulldog1935		#15	[-]
Posts: 3638 (09/17/08 13:15:58) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I am so high on Umpqua because it ties tough knots. Yes, in our clear water with our spooky fish, I use 3x for all my streamer fishing (I have used up to 12-lb. salt fluorocarbon when I was targeting stripers - but the first stripers I stumbled onto, I landed with 3x). I swore off high-strength tippet in my early days, when I was breaking off big rainbows on the Guadalupe at knots. Dai-Riki. Joe Robinson told me to try Umpqua and I have never turned back. Blasting off on one rush Alaska trip, though, I stopped to buy tippet, and Rio was all they had. I broke off five 30-inch Alaska rainbows at knots. I use double surgeons to attach tippet, or sometimes triple surgeons to attach 3x to 0x. I tie on flies with a uniknot or Duncan loop. I use clinch knot to tie a dropper to a streamer hook bend. If I have a choice, I only buy Umpqua. Nylon floats, fluorocarbon sinks. Last Edited By: bulldog1935 09/17/08 13:18:11. Edited 1 times.
ribs1		#16	[-]
Posts: 123 (09/17/08 19:12:22) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	bulldog1935 wrote: I hate high-strength tippet material. Nylon if you need to float, fluorocarbon to sink - always Umpqua. Ahhh, A fellow Umpqua lover. For anyone interested especially anyone who fishes a lot I'll give out one of my most guarded secrets. Being a guide, I was tired of paying $4 for a spool of tippet so I ordered a bulk spool from umpqua. They sent me a spool of Sunline Siglon V. I called and said what the F%^k and the guy informed me that it is the same stuff and they buy all there material from Sunline. So, I have a spool of 1000 meters of Umpqua tippet in 2x and 3x and I paid $10 each for them. These guys sell the stuff http://littledipperbaitan...ut/float-fishing-products
corlay		#17	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 231 (09/17/08 20:05:28) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	ribs1 wrote: These guys sell the stuff http://littledipperbaitan...ut/float-fishing-products Ribs, you rock! I also have been using only Umpqua for my spooled tippet. It's been my choice, not from failed experience with other brands, but because it's the first one I ever selected, and have never had a problem, so... Don't fix what ain't broken, they say... "From my observations I think that most of us spend too much time worrying about our tackle and too little time learning the intimate characteristics of the fish and streams we fish most." - Ray Bergman Trout, New York: Knopf 1938
corlay		#18	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 232 (09/17/08 20:06:37) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	wacokid54 wrote: I usually use double surgeons knot to attach tippet, and standard clinch knot to attach fly. How about you? yep. and yep... "From my observations I think that most of us spend too much time worrying about our tackle and too little time learning the intimate characteristics of the fish and streams we fish most." - Ray Bergman Trout, New York: Knopf 1938
corlay		#19	[-]
Master Guide Posts: 233 (09/17/08 20:15:32) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	jgestar wrote: Corey, blood knots aren't too bad to tie at home, but they are a bear when I'm standing next to the water. ever tie one, streamside, and when finishing it up, you go to clip off the leftover tags, and accidentally clip leader you just connected? ARRGHGHRGHHH... and to add to the tension, there's always fish rising like mad, during this blood-knot fiasco; to be sure... It's easier to have a couple of extra leaders tied up ahead of time, rather than prepping one on the water. you betcha. since I'm now fishing wets and dries, I'm trying one of those plastic "barrel" line/leader connectors. That way I can pre-rig for wets, dries, nymphs, streamers, - whatever... and they are so simple to interchange: just tie on a few overhand knots, and go... I've even placed another barrel in the backing side of my DT line. Totally reversible, when transferring the line to a different reel. I've heard that some don't like these connectors. Something about adding too much weight. But I've tried the loop-to-loop method, and I'm not a fan. It feels too "hinge-y" to me... "From my observations I think that most of us spend too much time worrying about our tackle and too little time learning the intimate characteristics of the fish and streams we fish most." - Ray Bergman Trout, New York: Knopf 1938
ribs1		#20	[-]
Posts: 124 (09/17/08 20:19:55) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I don't ever tie blood knots. Surgeons knots for me.

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